President Uhuru Kenyatta, while on state visit to Belgium last week, had an interview with Kenyan journalists including Radio Africa Group Political Editor Paul Ilado on various issues.
Mr President, what are the highlights of your visit? I am particularly encouraged by the unparalleled support that the EU has given to Kenya in the ongoing peace and stability mission in Somalia. Eighty per cent of the contributions to Amisom come directly from the EU. It is important to point out a number of things about Kenya's position on the issue of Somali refugees. We have agreed that we all have to work together to find a process of how we can establish the return of these people to their homes in a dignified and humane way. Kenya recognises her role in welcoming those who are running away from problems. And we shall continue to respect that position. But what Kenya is saying, especially in regard to the Dadaab camp, is that we now have been hosting these people for more than 23 years.
I think also, we have agreed on a bilateral basis between Kenya and Belgium, that we will also intensify and deepen our partnership with them. They want to establish themselves in Kenya, helping us create jobs for our people and using Kenya as a launching pad to enter the greater East African region.
Why do you want to visit the Port of Antwerp? I have been there before, and the purpose is that Belgium is a country where 80 per cent of the GDP is export-driven. This is where Kenya has a hope and a future. We want to learn and benchmark from how they are doing it, because if our port was that much more efficient, we could increase the GDP of our country — just through Mombasa Port — by an extra 1.5 per cent. That translates to thousands and thousands of jobs for our young people looking for placement and employment. And that is why we need to get out of the traditional way in which we think and see how we can benchmark on people who have actually made a whole economy out of using their port to build and develop their GDP.
As Jubile leader, are you going to set a standard for what rhetoric is acceptable and not acceptable ahead of 2017? I think I have made my position very clear. Kenyans have gone through a lot of difficulty, especially after the 2007-08 post-election violence that led to loss of life, property and displacement of people. I believe Kenyans made a very strong statement when we came to pass the 2010 constitution that Kenya will never go back to those difficult times. Those rights and freedoms cannot be at the expense of other peoples' rights and freedoms. Just as I have stated severally, if our colleagues wish to demonstrate, it is their right to do so. Inform the police, what time your demonstration is going to start, which route you are going to pass, what time you expect to end and where you expect to address your people. But be peaceful and do not interfere with the rights of others, do not destroy property, and you shall be be protected to fulfil your rights in accordance with our constitution. We shall not allow you to infringe on the rights of others. We all know that the problems we had in 2007-08 were not that the Kenyan people do not wish to live together in peace and harmony. But what happened was a result of inciting statements by politicians that led to clashes between communities, people who live together as neighbours. My position is that those statements, be they coming from Cord, be they coming from Jubilee, be they coming from whoever, will not and shall not be entertained. Those who choose to walk that path will face the full force of the law. And that has been my position, it is not something new, I have said it severally and that shall be the way it will be, so long as I am President.
I keep repeating this. You know, our problem is that we just have such short memories. Even a week for some of us is too long. I have always been saying clearly that I have never had a problem. We have a solution to a lot of our problems if only we were to follow the rule of law. There is no reason for us to be out there in the streets to achieve what the law and the constitution has already given us.
But people are saying that we need to go back to IPPG. When were gong back to IPPG, people forget that the constitution at that time had given the powers of appointment of commissioners to the then President. That was the situation. So there was need to negotiate with the President, because, he is the one who had the powers. But this constitution is very clear — the President doesn't have those powers.
Now, when we don't follow those procedures, when we now go and get our people excited because maybe some don't fully understand, it looks like so and so is refusing to talk. That is why I said, look, for the sake of bringing Kenyans together, I am willing to meet my colleagues, but even as we meet with our colleagues, it is to bring the country together. But we can't engage in this particular subject because engagement has to be where it belongs, which is what is being planned right now. And I do hope that our colleagues will also — in good faith, because they are interacting now — sit down, create this committee, look into the issues, bring it to the floor of Parliament, and address the IEBC situation comprehensively, to the satisfaction of all parties, but most importantly, to the satisfaction of the 42 million Kenyans. And I, both as President and as an individual citizen of Kenya, will support whatever recommendations they come up with to chart the way forward.
Now, when it comes to this issue of loss of lives, and this is why I am saying, if again you want to demonstrate, you also have a responsibility of saying to your people that, look, we want to demonstrate against IEBC, then take them through a process of what a demonstration is. Wherever you have seen an incident or problem, it is because supporters have gone out to attend a rally and either on their way there or on their way back, they start pelleting Kondele police station with stones. Now what does Kondele police station have to do with the IEBC? The police are then forced into a situation where they have to react. When you have a scenario like it happened in Migori, where prison officers who were transporting prisoners from police stations to courts of law are also attacked, What do they have to do with the IEBC? That is this kind of confusion that results in actions being taken. When Naivas supermarket is being stoned and looted, what are police supposed to do? Should they say that, "Oh, no, this is part of the demonstration", and yet the management is saying, "We are being looted. Protect us because you policemen are meant to be protecting us". What does Naivas have to do with the IEBC?
I would like to end this particular conversation with: freedom comes with responsibility. If we were to do that as Kenyans, we would have peace. Nobody is being denied their right to exercise those freedoms, but we are just saying that we must be responsible.
Both Uganda and Tanzania have opted to do the pipeline and railway line with Tanzania. What is your take on this development?
I don't look at it as if there is any threat whatsoever. I am actually quite excited by the way that, for the first time, we are starting to see major projects interconnecting the region actually happening. And I have always said that, my view of our region is a region not in competition with itself but complementing each other with a view of competing with the rest of the world. I do not see the central corridor as a threat to our northern corridor. I don't see it as a threat at all.
I actually believe that at some stage, right, looking into the future, that will be the way we will interconnect our infrastructure and truly link up our African continent. We will start focusing on intra-African trade, with us as the people focusing our efforts on areas where individuals are stronger and grow intra-Africa trade, which today forms a negligible component of the total trade we do with the rest of the world. So to me, I have always said, let the central corridor be built, and let us focus on the northern corridor. Let us focus on building the Lapsset, which will link us up with Ethiopia and ultimately up towards Cairo. This central corridor will link us down to Cape Town. Going up North, we will link up eventually through Central Africa to the West African Coast. This infrastructure can only help linkages between African countries and help grow intra-Africa trade.
When it comes to the pipeline, yes, indeed, we were disappointed, because we thought we needed to do this as a regional project. But for whatever reasons, our Ugandan counterparts thought their best interests might best be served by going to the Port of Tanga. That equally is their right. But that doesn't take away from the fact that Kenya will continue to develop that pipeline, because ultimately, we are developing it to take our product from Turkana to the sea and into the market. Maybe like we've said before, we may end up finding all this pipelines linked up. As we now start developing our own refineries and other products, they may eventually link up, I don't know. We may eventually come back to one line.
Let's go back to history a bit. How did you feel after losing to President Mwai Kibaki in 2002? I felt happy that as a first-timer, I had done well. I felt disappointed, of course, as anybody would feel that I had lost. But also, I felt it was my responsibility to accept that I had lost and I did. After that, we went back to regroup and start my life again, because my life does not mean the beginning and end of Kenya. No, Kenya comes first; Kenya is greater than anybody else. And I think my proudest moment was sitting with those we campaigned with and agreeing that it was necessary for us to appear before Kenyans and accept and concede defeat. So that was one of the proud moments, a sorry moment but a proud moment.
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